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+--- Sujet : Garage door control and monitoring (/showthread.php?tid=1260)
Garage door control and monitoring - Goahead - 21/08/2007
Excuse mois mais je parle pas beacoup the français
Hi Group
Can someone explain me how can i control my garage door with eib?
What module do i need? (only on/off??? to make up/down??)
The simples way...
Another question is, if i open or close the garage door with remote
(RF remote from motor manufacture) how will i receive the command
status with eib to now that door is now open or closed?? will that
status be transmited to BUS if i use the rf from motor...so i can
display it on a MT701 para exemple.
thank you for any help
Goahead
Garage door control and monitoring - Goahead - 21/08/2007
Hi understand this:
http://groups.google.pt/group/domotique-EIB/browse_thread/thread/6df24d6676d20847
http://groups.google.pt/group/domotique-EIB/browse_thread/thread/5ae58360419102b6
But...imagine that i press a button to make "all off" at my house...
All lights goes off, closes the water and gas, and sends command to
garage door...
now if i have the garage door closed it will open and vice-versa,
cause we cant use the option up/stop/down/stop
It must be separeted commands (2 binario exits).. up/stop and another
to down/stop
Am i confusing things?? how to do this type of scenario (all doors and
light closed)?
That is why i was asking the status part to bus!
Please help me out
Goahead
Garage door control and monitoring - mickg - 22/08/2007
Hi,
You can use a position sensor with an eib binary input, to know if the
door is open or close.
@+
On 21 août, 20:31, Goahead <etc...@ua.pt> wrote:
> Hi understand this:
>
> http://groups.google.pt/group/domotique-EIB/browse_thread/thread/6df2...http://groups.google.pt/group/domotique-EIB/browse_thread/thread/5ae5...
>
> But...imagine that i press a button to make "all off" at my house...
> All lights goes off, closes the water and gas, and sends command to
> garage door...
> now if i have the garage door closed it will open and vice-versa,
> cause we cant use the option up/stop/down/stop
> It must be separeted commands (2 binario exits).. up/stop and another
> to down/stop
>
> Am i confusing things?? how to do this type of scenario (all doors and
> light closed)?
> That is why i was asking the status part to bus!
>
> Please help me out
> Goahead
Garage door control and monitoring - Marc Assin - 22/08/2007
Hi Goahead,
Nice to have you back :-)
I intend also to automate a garage door in the near future.
But in my case it is a farm door (H=3,5m), I'll use the trick
mentionned by mickg to open the door only for a height of 2m (normal
car & person).
An easy way would be with reed switches, (maybe several switches if
you need to know the intermediate position) along the door travelling
pathway.
So, as mentionned above, a binary input device, with 4 inputs would be
more than enough.
Caution: the max recommended length of cable for a binary input = 5m.
So, it would be clever to position the binay input device somehere in
the middle of the door travel, in such a way to not to exceed the max
length.
Garage door control and monitoring - Goahead - 24/08/2007
Hi Mickg and Marc
Bonjour
Thank you for fast response.
I did not buy the door yet but im considering buying Marantec motor
confort 220
Ok then...so.. do i need to put a TX304 (free contact) or a TX314
(230V) near the motor?
Are motors output contacts also free or 220V for the commands (i
beleive they have a GND or positive common pin..will this kill the
binary input?).
Buy the way..output contacts from garage motor doors have separeted
"up" and "down" input contacts or not?
Merci a touts
regards
Goahead
Garage door control and monitoring - keldo - 24/08/2007
On 21 août, 20:31, Goahead <etc...@ua.pt> wrote:
> But...imagine that i press a button to make "all off" at my house...
> All lights goes off, closes the water and gas, and sends command to
> garage door...
> now if i have the garage door closed it will open and vice-versa,
> cause we cant use the option up/stop/down/stop
> It must be separeted commands (2 binario exits).. up/stop and another
> to down/stop
Hello.
As far as I know, this would make no problem for a normal 230V blind/
roller actuator.
The actuator has two 230V outputs per channel, one to go up and the
other one to go down, so it is easy to connect on the engine of the
door.
The EIB bus side, if you configure your actuator in "roller" mode,
you'll have two communication objects avaliable on the bus :
1) Up/Down (1 bit object)
2) Stop/Step (1 bit object)
In the configuration page of your actuator (in ETS) you will find a
few settings, the most interesting ones are "time to go up" and "time
to go down", but depending the actuator type, you'll have a lot more
settings (look at the documentation of a Siemens N 523/02 for
exemple).
How does this work ?
When the communication object "Up/Down" recieves a telegram "1" from
the bus, the actuator will apply 230V on the "go up" output for the
number of seconds you put as parameter "time to go up", then the 230V
will be dropped. There must NOT be any other telegram on the bus to
stop the action, so it is not like an actuator for a light which stays
on until a "0" telegram is recieved from the bus, and that makes it a
little bit confusing when you work with blind/roller actuators for the
first time.
To let your door (or blind, roller, ...) go down, it is exactly the
same as above but a "0" telegram is sent to the "Up/Down"
communication object. Again, it is the internal timer of the actuator
that will stop the 230V, NOT any other telegram.
If you configure your actuator for a "roller", which is probably the
right mode for a garage door, the second object, "Stop/Step" does only
one thing : If the 230V is currently applied on one of the two output
of this channel, any telegram recieved (so either a "0" or a "1") for
this object will stop the 230V immediatetly (so it will shorten the
timer).
The "time to go up" and "time to go down" values that you will put in
ETS must be slightly higher that the times required by you door to
move completely from closed to fully open (and the way back for the
2nd value of course), so that means you'll have to connect an operate
your door "manually" with a classic switch and measure the times
before you can actually connect your door on the EIB actuator.
This also means that (after the connection on the EIB actuator), once
your door will be fully closed or fully open, the door engine will
still be powered on the 230V for a few seconds ; so it must have some
sort of internal protection (=interrupteur "fin de course") to avoid
beeing damaged, or you'll have to add sensors near the "fully open"
and "fully closed" positions to send a "Stop" telegram for the
actuator at just the right time/position.
I hope you now see that integrating your garage door into an "All Off"
scenario is a piece of cake, as you just have to send a "0" telegram
to your actuator : the door will close if it was open, even partially
open, and if it was already closed it will stay so.
But note that in the later case, the actuator will still send 230V on
the "down" output for some seconds (the preset time for "going down")
and in this case it could be very bad for the door engine if it has no
internal protection as the sensor trick will not work :
--> the door was already closed so the sensor already sent its
telegram a long time ago and it will not send a new "stop" telegram,
so this situation must be prevented with a few bolean logic gates
between the last sensor telegrams and the "up/down" telegrams.
If you want a trustable feedback of the actual position of your door,
you'll sensors also, because the "up/down" telegram only tells you
what was the last direction requested, but not if the door actually
moved.
The problem is the same with rollers and is particularly true in the
closing direction :
--> On one day, you always end up with "something" (= a box, a
bicycle, a car, ...) just right in the way of garage door moving down.
If nobody sees it and the engine as no way to know someting is
blocking the door, it will probably try hard to push the door further
that it actually can and this could damage the entire door (and the
car behind it by the way ...).
So I would suggest you to pay some special attention to protection
accessories like a sensor located inside the lower rubber edge of the
door (that could stop it when something is blocking) BEFORE you order
the door.
For poeple like Mark who don't want to fully open the door at all
time, some "smarter" actuators like the Siemens N 523/02 have extra
settings and communication objects avaliable to memorise "middle"
positions and/or to recieve orders like "open the door at 75%". It may
not be very acurate (it is based on the number of seconds the engine
is running, not n a sensor feedback) but is still remains very handy.
Garage door control and monitoring - keldo - 24/08/2007
On 22 août, 11:56, Marc Assin <raym...@warichet.com> wrote:
> Caution: the max recommended length of cable for a binary input = 5m.
> So, it would be clever to position the binay input device somehere in
> the middle of the door travel, in such a way to not to exceed the max
> length.
While probably valid for most of the little "UP" push-buttons sensor
modules, this is not always true, it depends on the module type.
With the Merten DIN rail "10v" input modules for exemple (6445 92 - 8
inputs, 6444 90 - 4 inputs), the cable can go up to 50 meters.
Garage door control and monitoring - Goahead - 27/08/2007
Thank you Keldo
I think i got it now...
"The actuator has two 230V outputs per channel, one to go up and the
other one to go down, so it is easy to connect on the engine of the
door. "
Are you saying that motors have 230V input signals to make the up and
down correct?
Usually every garage door have "force" sensors so it will never crush
a person or a car.
I also beleive that all of them have "end of course", so it will turn
motor off after moving to position full open or full closed. just like
rollershuters.
Before i buy the door i will ask all this questions to the technical
guy.
If i can manage to make it work ill put here the results or last
questions. (hope to finish assembly of door in midle november)
Thank you again
Goahead
Garage door control and monitoring - keldo - 29/08/2007
On 27 août, 18:34, Goahead <etc...@ua.pt> wrote:
> I think i got it now...
> "The actuator has two 230V outputs per channel, one to go up and the
> other one to go down, so it is easy to connect on the engine of the
> door. "
>
> Are you saying that motors have 230V input signals to make the up and
> down correct?
Well, that's the big question ...
Most of the binds/rollers motors, like tubular motors, have no
integrated electronics, they just have a wire for the neutral, a
second wire to make the motor run in one direction, a third wire to
make it run in the other direction (never power those two wires at the
same time, of course) and the two end-of-course switches.
In the case of garage door motors, it is more complex because there
any many different ways to open a door ; so it is impossible to answer
the question because it is linked to the way the motor and the
surrounding electronics have been built.
If you can buy a motor that has separate 'go up' and 'go down' inputs,
eventually completed with the traditional "one button - up/down"
remote control (or input), it is probably the easiest way to connect
everything to EIB.
If you don't find such a motor that fits your door, and you end up
buying one without the "magical 2 extra inputs", then you'll probably
need to open the top cover of the motor (and its electronic module) to
find inside how to "build" the 2 missing inputs. The hardware part
will most probably not be more complicated that adding 2 or 3 small
relays and maybe a few diodes, but even that may be far too
complicated for you if you're not experianced into such a work ... and
in any way it will definitely void the warranty on your motor.
So, except if you are a trained electrician/electronician and decide
to work with a used motor, the vendor of the new motor will be THE guy
you need to discuss with at this point, in order to get a motor with
the extra inputs.
By the way, it doesn't necessarily need to be 230V AC inputs, EIB
blind/roller modules also exist for 24V DC as far as I know, and with
a pair of relays you can make it work for any voltage and without any
modification to the motor in this case :-).
Keldo