28/11/2007, 00:54:10
@Goahead
> Till now...all my house works...but i have a dead TS223 and Jung 3602
> that i want to get back to life..or at leas explore those to learn
> more about EIB
Hello Goahead.
A fault on the application board is normally not supposed to make any
short circuit on the BUS, so you'll need to have a look at the BCU
part of your module (or the part of the circuit that does the same job
as a BCU ...).
Will it be easy for you to trouble shoot your TS223 ?
It is probably linked to the age of the design of this EIB module.
I already opened a few EIB modules, there are 2 different worlds in
there ...
- The old world : a separate BCU/BIM (just like the one we put in the
wall boxes but without the frame and with a metallic shield), plugged
on the application board (the one with the relay or dimmer or ...)
with a 10 or 12 pins connector.
You gonna find this architecture in old "EP" actors for exemple (the
one you hide in the raised cieling).
Old DIN rail moutable modules do have the same logical architecture
but, physically, the BCU/BIM inside might have quite another format.
To help you troubleshoot the BCU/BIM, you can find the datasheet of
the BIM on http://www.opternus.de :
http://www.opternus.de/opternus-componen...1-115.html
Look for the pdf files on the right side.
If the BCU/BIM is too damaged to be repaired, it might be possible to
buy another one from the vendor (Hager, Jung, ...) or from the maker
(most probably Siemens), but it must be programmed with the right
Vendor ID and Product ID in flash memory to be recognised by the ETS
as a "Hager TS223" or "Jung xxx" (definitely needed if you buy it
directly from Siemens). This re-programming is normally possible with
the BCU-SDK (free software) but I never did it myself.
- The new world : everything soldered on the same PCB.
Here, there are, again, two different "sub-worlds".
a) There is a "classical" BCU chipset (a 68HC05 family member + a bus
transiever) but it is intégrated on the same PCB as the application
part. In this case, you will probably (as a trained electronician ...)
recognise the part of the PCB that holds the BCU chipset and, maybe,
it will be possible for you to troubleshoot the shortcircuit. A
damaged transiever or microcontroller can be replaced if your are able
to de-solder and re-solder SMD devices but, if you change the
microcontroller, you'll need to go thru the "ID's" re-programming
phase like for old world. Look at http://www.opternus.de for parts.
b) The bus interface and the EIB protocol are processed by specific
hardware parts chosen by the vendor ; most probably a TP-UART
(Siemens) chip for the bus interface, connected to any microcontroller
with a UART port, but it can also be a completely original design form
the vendor.
A damaged TP-UART chip can be replaced if your are able to de-solder
and re-solder SMD devices (SOIC-20). You can buy a TP-UART and find
the datasheet on the http://www.opternus.de website, there are also some
other intersting pdf files and information avaliable there.
Note that for the "old world" and the "new world a)" cases, you can
also "cannibalize" the parts from any normal BCU1 or BCU2 as long as
the part numbers and the EIB software revision number( = "mask
version") are exactly the same as the ones used into the part you are
repairing. Of course, you'll need to go thru the "ID's" re-programming
phase too.
At the end, opening a old EIB module and looking inside for a small
piece of metal making a short-circuit is easy but really repairing the
module by replacing some parts of the bus interface is probably not
financially interesting (although replacing a broke relay or burned
triac inside definitely is ...)
Have fun ;-)
Keldo.
> Till now...all my house works...but i have a dead TS223 and Jung 3602
> that i want to get back to life..or at leas explore those to learn
> more about EIB
Hello Goahead.
A fault on the application board is normally not supposed to make any
short circuit on the BUS, so you'll need to have a look at the BCU
part of your module (or the part of the circuit that does the same job
as a BCU ...).
Will it be easy for you to trouble shoot your TS223 ?
It is probably linked to the age of the design of this EIB module.
I already opened a few EIB modules, there are 2 different worlds in
there ...
- The old world : a separate BCU/BIM (just like the one we put in the
wall boxes but without the frame and with a metallic shield), plugged
on the application board (the one with the relay or dimmer or ...)
with a 10 or 12 pins connector.
You gonna find this architecture in old "EP" actors for exemple (the
one you hide in the raised cieling).
Old DIN rail moutable modules do have the same logical architecture
but, physically, the BCU/BIM inside might have quite another format.
To help you troubleshoot the BCU/BIM, you can find the datasheet of
the BIM on http://www.opternus.de :
http://www.opternus.de/opternus-componen...1-115.html
Look for the pdf files on the right side.
If the BCU/BIM is too damaged to be repaired, it might be possible to
buy another one from the vendor (Hager, Jung, ...) or from the maker
(most probably Siemens), but it must be programmed with the right
Vendor ID and Product ID in flash memory to be recognised by the ETS
as a "Hager TS223" or "Jung xxx" (definitely needed if you buy it
directly from Siemens). This re-programming is normally possible with
the BCU-SDK (free software) but I never did it myself.
- The new world : everything soldered on the same PCB.
Here, there are, again, two different "sub-worlds".
a) There is a "classical" BCU chipset (a 68HC05 family member + a bus
transiever) but it is intégrated on the same PCB as the application
part. In this case, you will probably (as a trained electronician ...)
recognise the part of the PCB that holds the BCU chipset and, maybe,
it will be possible for you to troubleshoot the shortcircuit. A
damaged transiever or microcontroller can be replaced if your are able
to de-solder and re-solder SMD devices but, if you change the
microcontroller, you'll need to go thru the "ID's" re-programming
phase like for old world. Look at http://www.opternus.de for parts.
b) The bus interface and the EIB protocol are processed by specific
hardware parts chosen by the vendor ; most probably a TP-UART
(Siemens) chip for the bus interface, connected to any microcontroller
with a UART port, but it can also be a completely original design form
the vendor.
A damaged TP-UART chip can be replaced if your are able to de-solder
and re-solder SMD devices (SOIC-20). You can buy a TP-UART and find
the datasheet on the http://www.opternus.de website, there are also some
other intersting pdf files and information avaliable there.
Note that for the "old world" and the "new world a)" cases, you can
also "cannibalize" the parts from any normal BCU1 or BCU2 as long as
the part numbers and the EIB software revision number( = "mask
version") are exactly the same as the ones used into the part you are
repairing. Of course, you'll need to go thru the "ID's" re-programming
phase too.
At the end, opening a old EIB module and looking inside for a small
piece of metal making a short-circuit is easy but really repairing the
module by replacing some parts of the bus interface is probably not
financially interesting (although replacing a broke relay or burned
triac inside definitely is ...)
Have fun ;-)
Keldo.